tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5650649138973583402.post7219333618867986711..comments2023-09-20T07:28:27.572-05:00Comments on Linux in Exile: Linux on USBJim Hallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11598443864678006773noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5650649138973583402.post-8868065724690307492009-11-19T00:32:41.090-06:002009-11-19T00:32:41.090-06:00The thing is, if you run Linux on a USB stick you&...<i>The thing is, if you run Linux on a USB stick you'd better make frequent backups because the likelihood of failure is much higher than for magnetic disks</i><br /><br />You've got to do that anyway though. I'd bet any money that the likelyhood of failure due to leaving the USB stick somewhere, stepping on it, or putting it through the washing machine is a couple of orders of magnitude higher than likelyhood of failure due to flash wear, as long as you've got atime off and aren't using it for swap or something else totally atypical.<br /><br />I don't know how true this is for cheap USB flash drives, but I know the ones that are supposed to be used as replacement hard drives (should) last a long time; concerns about <i>them</i> wearing out are often greately overstated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5650649138973583402.post-88727668172158604042009-11-18T19:52:16.482-06:002009-11-18T19:52:16.482-06:00@Anonymous: You miss the point. Who cares if a US...@Anonymous: You miss the point. Who cares if a USB stick costs $2,000 and you've got to throw it out every 2 years? The thing is, if you run Linux on a USB stick you'd better make frequent backups because the likelihood of failure is much higher than for magnetic disks. Eeven on magnetic disks I do a backup once a week for my own little machines, but a lot of people wouldn't even do that. The other thing is that you do need to think a bit about the typical use when running Linux off a USB stick because it really can knock down the lifetime of that USB stick and it's a nuisance to set up a new USB stick even if you've scripted the entire process including restoring data from backup - not to mention what's lost is lost. If you had 4 days' work not backed up and you had to set up a new USB gizmo twice a year, that's a fair amount of work lost.<br /><br />Memory technology continues to improve though; we'll see how those SSDs work out in the real world and we'll also see if that technology displaces the current USB memory tech. Some old NV memory technologies have even made a comeback after almost 40 years - of course they're now much more compact, much faster, and even more reliable; currently some that I use in instruments are about 5 orders of magnitude more reliable (remember these are manufacturer estimates) than current USB Flash - the catch is that the storage density is at least 3 orders of magnitude lower than that of USB Flash. The claims of the SSD manufacturers is that they have something with all the goodies - high density and greater reliability than the USB memory. So perhaps in a few more years you can bet your USB stick will run Linux without major faults for 5 years or more - but that's certainly not the case today.MadScientistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5650649138973583402.post-24400713825066260162009-11-18T16:00:34.881-06:002009-11-18T16:00:34.881-06:00I definitely consider it a relic. IIRC, atime was ...I definitely consider it a relic. IIRC, atime was used in some old newsreaders and mail clients, when talking to a local news/mail spool. But it hasn't been needed for a long time.JHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264061238864151815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5650649138973583402.post-38364230375824434982009-11-18T14:36:18.847-06:002009-11-18T14:36:18.847-06:00Doesn't everyone use the noatime option on all...Doesn't everyone use the noatime option on all their file systems?<br /><br />Some backup software depends on atime, I think, but that's about it. I'd switch backup software before I turned atime on. Atime is a historical mistake with a huge performance cost.Wayne Conradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595005905880642013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5650649138973583402.post-45782850725495523762009-11-18T09:33:24.753-06:002009-11-18T09:33:24.753-06:00And in fact, I do run this with noatime.And in fact, I do run this with noatime.JHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264061238864151815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5650649138973583402.post-47626804036394101372009-11-18T06:29:46.958-06:002009-11-18T06:29:46.958-06:00Madscientist, that really depends on how "lon...Madscientist, that really depends on how "long term" this is intended to be. Even if it lasts 2 years, by then an 8GB drive may seem tiny. Today, a 1GB flash drive is six bucks, but what did it cost a year ago, 2 years ago? Iin 2 years, just buy a new one, wheather or not this one is still working.<br /><br />With a Linux OS, the important thing will be to use noatime. By itself, this will reduce I/O considerably.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5650649138973583402.post-81080268620998805672009-11-17T17:47:03.347-06:002009-11-17T17:47:03.347-06:00Has anyone tried installing the Fedora LiveUSB cre...Has anyone tried installing the Fedora LiveUSB creator on a system like Ubuntu? I've tried doing this by downloading the tar.bz2 file but it hasn't worked.<br />Any help would be appreciated!<br />On a side note, I have liked GNOME since first seeing it, but I may switch over to KDE 4.3 entirely. I'm smitten; in fact I'm using it right now (installed on top of Linux Mint 7 (GNOME)).<br />--<br />a Linux Mint user since 2009 May 1PVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03204919785416600206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5650649138973583402.post-8963965109611759672009-11-17T15:13:51.768-06:002009-11-17T15:13:51.768-06:00You need to think a bit about the "typical # ...You need to think a bit about the "typical # of writes before failure" or you can see your USB flash installation fail in only a few months. I have similar systems in the field (over 2 years and still going); those have the system on one 'partition' which is mounted via the filesystem loop device (which consumes RAM, but allows me to avoid writing to the FLASH). All logs go into a virtual disk and the system is set to limit logs to 80KB. In my case the machines log data at a fairly low rate (only 150KB per day) so a conservative figure on the lifetime gives me 15 years as the mean time before failure of the FLASH, whereas the system has a design life of 5 years (extremely likely to be exceeded). But depending on how you use your USB installation, it can very well end up lasting only a few months to 2 years. So - make frequent backups if you have any valuable data on it.MadScientistnoreply@blogger.com